*Here is an exclusive look at my interview with the great musician, Joe Thomas. I must say that writing the book, Major Jazz, has given me so many opportunities to get an up close account of what it was like to be a jazz musician. We are on two different coasts-- I’m in California and he is in New Jersey. The time zones are three hours apart, and yet, he allowed me to interview him at his dinner time.
"ON THE PHONE WITH JOE"
Me: Let me
first start the interview by saying thank you for allowing me to interview you.
I am truly honored.
Joe: Oh, I
am. You could’ve been interviewing Denzel Washington.
Me: (giggle) Yeah, but the theme is Jazz Appreciation. For
me, I've been doing this research for Major Jazz and to be actually able to talk to you,
someone who performed around that time, is just a blessing.
Joe: Well, listen, I’m honored to tell the truth. Go
ahead and I’ll be happy to give you the answers I have.
Me: Okay, around what age were you when you found
out that you had a passion for music?
Joe: My brother Frank taught himself how to play the
saxophone. He was a practice nut. He used to practice for hours. At age fifteen
he said, “Joe, would you like to play the saxophone?” I said, I would not because
at age fifteen, you wanted to go to the playground, and I didn’t want to be
stuck in the house playing notes. I wanted to be on the playground. You just
want to have fun with sports and girls. I was never really good at sports, but…
Frank was very persuasive. He would come back again and say, “Listen, Joe, I
think you will enjoy to play.” After awhile, I took it up. I took to the
instrument right away. Frank taught me. We were both in school. I was in high
school and I owe everything to him. He was always there for me, musically.
Really, period, but since we’re talking about music… He was just there for me.
I went on to make records and he never did, but he was always my number one
fan. He never gave any hint that he was anything less than extremely proud ‘cause
he was very happy that his younger brother learned how to play the horn. I was
fifteen. That was 65 years ago…
Me: Are there any other instruments you play other
than the sax?
Joe: Saxaphone was always my instrument, but as I
got a little bit older, I learned how to play the flute. Most of my albums, the
instrumentation, I mostly play the flute.
Me: Tell me one of your fondest memories while
recording?
Joe: (pause) One of my fondest memories… well… this
producer brought in 35 musicians to a studio in New York. All live musicians…
no gimmicks. That was awesome.
Me: Can you name some of the musicians you’ve had
the honor of working with?
Joe: Jimmy McGriff, Jack McDuff, Charlie Early, Rhoda
Scott, Dee Dee Ford… I named all band leaders of groups. I played with other
groups, but… I wanted to give you those leaders’ names.
Me: How many records do you have under your belt?
Joe: I have 9 albums all together, but now some of
those are CD’s, but, um, a total of 9.
Me: That’s very impressive.
Joe: I’m going to tell you something else that you’re
going to find very interesting… On one of my albums called Get in the Wind, was a
song called “Plato’s Retreat” and “Plato’s Retreat” got to be #11 in Disco
throughout the nation, out of a hundred possibilities. It got to be #11. Now,
the significance of that is, I’m not a disco artist (laughs). It sold a lot of
records, but it didn’t do anything for my career because I wasn’t about to go
to no discos… First of all, it was twenty something musicians and I didn’t even
produce that style. The producer just wanted to finish the album, so he came up
with this song. By the time I got there, it had already been arranged and
completed. Matter of fact, this goes back further than, um, your current age
would allow you to be because this came out in the seventies… I’m not asking
your age, but I’m saying how long ago it was.
Me: (laughs) Well, I’m 32 so…
Joe: You go back to the seventies, that would make
you around two?
Me: Well, actually I was born in ’81…
Joe: Well, then, there you go, that was eight years
before… But anyway, I just found it odd that a jazz musician could make a disco
record #11 on the charts.
Me. That’s crazy… Where were your favorite
performance venues?
Joe: I would say, I did a small stint at the Bottom Line. I played… actually… my favorite was in Paris, France… a place called… I
can’t remember the name… I gotta find it for you, but… another place was called
The Olympia. Yeah, the Olympia was like the Madison Square Garden.
Me: What types of music influenced your music? Your
favorites?
Joe: I liked what they called Rock House. Rock
House wasn’t jazz as jazz goes but, it was jazzy, more or less, one of those
foot stomping things, you know… And, this is an interesting story, people could
walk the bar. People would put money in your horn. They would knock everyone’s
drink over, but they would love when you walked the bar. I used to enjoy doing
that, but of course… very young…
Me: Do you have any musical heroes?
Joe: Oh yeah, plenty of them. Okay, let’s start with
Big Bands. My Big Band favorites are Count Bessie, Duke Ellington, Illinois
Jacquet, Frank Foster, and Dizzy Gillespie.
Me: Oh yeah, I love Dizzy. Where were you raised?
Joe: I was raised in Newark, New Jersey. You know
interesting story speaking of Newark… James Moody… You know that name?
Me: Yes.
Joe: I was playing at a place in Newark… I was about
17 and Moody came in and he was with Dizzy Gillespie at the time. He was our
town hero because he was from Newark and he was playing with Dizzy Gillespie.
He used to call me lil’ Joe. First of all, I wasn’t that big. Another thing, there was another Joe Thomas, so they didn’t want my name to get mixed up with
his. So, they called me lil’ Joe. Moody said, “Lil’ Joe, you start playing in these
places, you’ll never get out of them.” I’ll never forget that.
Me: Do you have a favorite “on the road story”?
Joe: My favorite on the road story, would probably
be… Playing in the Jazz Festivals in Rochester and Buffalo with some of the
groups I mentioned earlier… It was a jazz concert.
Me: I bet that was amazing.
Joe: Oh, it was amazing. We started out in Rochester
and then went up to Buffalo, same group, two different cities.
Me: Now, Elissa Gabrielle, is my publisher and
friend, but she’s also your lovely daughter.
Joe: That’s right.
Me: Your music definitely left a lasting impression
because she named her company Peace in the Storm after one of your songs.
Joe: It was a gospel song.
Me: Yeah. Can you tell me your favorite musical
memory of her as a child?
Joe: Oh yeah, yeah, Lissa always liked the older
music. I used to wonder where she got that from ‘cause as a very young person,
she loved older music. She had a great attraction to it and she did it so well.
I used to wonder how in the world can a person so young be able to relate to
music from when I was a kid, you know? She always liked music and she loved to
hear me play.
Me: That’s so precious.
Joe: Now, go ahead and ask me whatever else you
want. Get everything…
Me: I have a few more…
Joe: Okay.
Me: In my novel, Major Jazz, I touch on the subject
of loving music so much that Major puts love on the backburner… Was there ever
a time when you felt conflicted with music and love?
Joe: Oh yeah, you do because the thing about it, when
you play music, you look at it as more than playing the horn… It’s soothing
people… While they’re listening to you, they don’t have any unpaid bills or
spouse they’re fighting with…. It’s an absolute joy you bring to them, amongst
other things, and that is so rewarding, you know. You like the applause. You
like the crowd that comes in to see you… In this case, Joe Thomas…These are all
the things that build you up and make you feel so good because when you have a
following it’s ‘cause they told others. The club owners want you back ‘cause of
your following. The more people that’s there, the more money is made.
Me: I’m sure it was tough with the women being
around and wanting to get close to you.
Joe: I don’t know if it was tough (laughs). You get
that kind of attention from women because you are an artist and if I was just a
plain person walking in that same place, no one would notice me, I wouldn’t get
the same kind of feel…. I was up on stage and as it goes, people do take to
performing artists, sports figures, and things like that, both sides, men and
women. So, the women… I was complimented by the attention… I always felt that women were very special and
should be treated as such. I just felt that, once again, women were special. I
drew the conclusion as to what they were about. If they would come up to ya and
say something and you would obviously know that there was some interest there.
Of course you have to be there and they have to be there.
Me: Did you ever hear about Jazz in the Fillmore
while playing in New York?
Joe: Yeah, but not that very much. I don’t know if
it was that popular while I was playing in New York. When did it come about as
far as years?
Me: In the ‘50’s to ‘60’s.
Joe: Okay, I really didn’t know much about it,
honestly. I knew more about Small’s Paradise… Count Bessie’s... I played at
Count Bessie’s. Yeah, he had a bar over there and I was over there. New York
was open ‘til 4 and Newark closed at 2. When we went over there, no one knew
who we was. The crowds were kind of like ho hum kind of thing, but after 2, the
people from Newark would come flying over there and the crowd became huge. They
would wonder how did the crowd get so huge? It made us a big hit over at Bessie’s.
Me: Wow…
Joe: Yeah, that’s exactly how that happened.
Me: This has truly been an honor. I have a blog that
I’m going to put this up on. Thank you so much for taking the time for my interview.
Joe: If you think of anything else, please call me.
Me: I sure will. You are amazing. Have a good night.
Joe: You have a good night as well.
